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Talk:Quality Universe
Post-1956 Info This reality designation was created to deal with the Golden Age Quality characters and stories. Therefore, I think it should never refer to Quicksilver as Max Mercury, or Firebrand as the original implying there were others. Also, Kid Eternity and his cast belong on this page despite the Earth-S retcon. :I've removed a lot, because it was a mess. This requires way more discussion before it's implemented site-wide. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 19:51, June 28, 2014 (UTC) First appearance? Why is considered the first appearance of this universe? There was one non-strip-reprint, owned-by-Quality story in -- the Crack Casey story. Sure, it's only one page and Crack Casey never appeared again, but Crack Casey is considered to be the first Quality Comics character. Shadzane (talk) 21:44, June 30, 2014 (UTC) Quality heroes DCU appearances I thought this info might be useful. It has been collated from Mike Kooiman and Jim Amash's Quality Companion (TwoMorrows Publishing, 2011). * Ace of Space (no DCU apps.) * The Barker (mentioned on New Earth in Detective Comics (Volume 1) #801) * Bill the Magnificent (no DCU apps.) * Black Condor (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #31 and New Earth in All-Star Squadron #60) * Blackhawk Squadron (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #48 and New Earth in Blackhawk (Volume 2)#1) * Blue Tracer (no DCU apps.) * Bozo the Iron Man (appeared on New Earth in Starman (Volume 2) #64) * Captain Triumph (appeared on New Earth in Titans (Volume 1) #36) * The Clock (mentioned on New Earth in Starman (Volume 2) 19) * Death Patrol (no DCU apps.) * Destiny (no DCU apps.) * Destroying Demon (no DCU apps.) * Doll Man (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #31 and New Earth in All-Star Squadron #60) * The Dragon (no DCU apps.) * Firebrand (appeared on Earth-Two in Justice League of America (Volume 1) #193 and New Earth in All-Star Squadron #60) * G-2 (no DCU apps.) * Ghost of Flanders (no DCU apps.) * Great Defender (mentioned on New Earth in Superman (Volume 1) #689) * The Hawk (no DCU apps.) * Hercules (mentioned on New Earth in Starman (Volume 2) #35) * Human Bomb (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #31 and New Earth in All-Star Squadron #60) * Inferior Man (no DCU apps.) * Invisible Hood (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #32 and New Earth in Secret Origins (Volume 2) #26) * The Jester (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #31 and New Earth in All-Star Squadron #60) * Just 'N' Right (no DCU apps.) * Kid Eternity (appeared on Earth-S in Shazam! #27 and New Earth in Kid Eternity (Volume 2) #1) * Lady Luck (no DCU apps.) * Madam Fatal (mentioned on New Earth in JSA #1 and appeared on Prime Earth (or maybe it was New Earth) in The Shade (Volume 2) #4) * Magno (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #32 and New Earth in Secret Origins (Volume 2) #26) * Manhunter (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #31 and New Earth in Infinity, Inc. (Volume 1) #46) * Margo the Magician (no DCU apps.) * The Marksman (mentioned on New Earth in JSA Returns: National Comics #1) * Merlin the Magician (appeared on New Earth in 'JSA Returns: All-Star Comics #1) * Midnight (appeared on Earth-Two in ''All-Star Squadron #32 and New Earth in Secret Origins (Volume 2) #28) * Miss America (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #32 and New Earth in Secret Origins (Volume 2) #26) * Mister Mystic (no DCU apps.) * Monsieur X (no DCU apps.) * The Mouthpiece (no DCU apps.) * Neon the Unknown (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #32 and New Earth in Secret Origins (Volume 2) #26) * The Orchid (no DCU apps.) * Phantom Lady (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #2 and New Earth in All-Star Squadron #60) * Plastic Man (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #1 and New Earth in All-Star Squadron #60) * Quicksilver (appeared on Earth-Two -- All-Star Squadron #50 and New Earth in Young All-Stars #27) * The Raven (no DCU apps., but due to crossover with Phantom Lady may be Earth-Two canon) * The Ray (appeared on Earth-Two -- All-Star Squadron #31 and New Earth in All-Star Squadron #60) * Red Bee (appeared on Earth-Two -- All-Star Squadron #31 and New Earth in Starman (Volume 2) #37) * Red Torpedo (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #32 and New Earth in Starman (Volume 2) #77) * Rusty Ryan (no DCU apps.) * Scarlet Seal (no DCU apps.) * 711 (no DCU apps.) * The Sniper (no DCU apps.) * The Spider (appeared on Earth-Two -- All-Star Squadron #50 and New Earth in The Shade (Volume 1) #3) * Spider Widow (no DCU apps., but due to crossover with Phantom Lady may be Earth-Two canon) * The Spirit (owned by Will Eisner) * The Sword (no DCU apps) * Tor (appeared on New Earth in JSA Returns: All-Star Comics #1) * Uncle Sam (appeared on Earth-Two in All-Star Squadron #31 and New Earth in All-Star Squadron #60) * The Unknown (no DCU apps.) * USA (no DCU apps.) * The Voice (no DCU apps.) * The Whistler (no DCU apps.) * Wildfire (no DCU apps.) * Wings Wendall (no DCU apps.) * Wonder Boy (no DCU apps.) * Yankee Eagle I & II (no DCU apps.) * Zero, Ghost Detective (no DCU apps.) DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 15:59, August 9, 2014 (UTC) :The Barker is mentioned, and has a grandson, in the DCU. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 16:09, August 9, 2014 (UTC) :: Added. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 16:23, August 9, 2014 (UTC) :Also, Madame Fatal appeared recently in Shade. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 16:10, August 9, 2014 (UTC) ::Also added. Do we count that one as Prime Earth? DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 16:23, August 9, 2014 (UTC) :Then there's the question, how many pages do they get. For example, does Uncle Sam get a Q, a E-2 and a New Earth? Does Blackhawk get Q, E-1 and E-2? Personally, I'd say yes, but I'd want to poll the others before articles are split. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 16:54, August 9, 2014 (UTC) ::Because of the inconsistencies between the Golden Age and Earth-Two/Earth-X histories of the Freedom Fighters members, it makes sense to me for all of those characters to have seperate QU, Earth-Two and New Earth pages. The Blackhawks: QU, Earth-Two, Earth-One, New Earth. Plas: QU, Earth-Two, Earth-Twelve, Earth-One, New Earth. Characters that didn't reappear until after 1986 (i.e. Joe Hercules or Madam Fatal) could probably just have New Earth pages with the Golden Age stuff folded in like Jay Garrick and Alan Scott, IMHO. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 10:36, August 10, 2014 (UTC) :::I'm more of a mind to look at what was published with ich character both by Quality and by DC. Characters that only Quality published, only a QU page. Those that DC has use... can get complicated. I agree, if DC didn't use them until post-Crisis, we can get away with just a New Earth page. The rest... well... if Quality stopped using the character prior to c.1944-5 we would just be dealing with the DCU variants. As for the examples so far: :::* Uncle Sam: QU, Earth-Two, and New Earth. Quality didn't publish anything with the character after 1944, but there is a significant divergence with the Squadron and FF. :::* Blackhawk: QU, Earth-Two, Earth-One, and New Earth. The character was re-introduced after Crisis as a period character. Some of the Earth-One silliness was never touched on, I think. Nay need to re-check JLA: Year One though. :::* Plas is a mess.... :::- Byfield (talk) 15:40, August 10, 2014 (UTC) :::: Blackhawk is an even bigger mess. The Earth-One characters were revamped in the ealry 80s by Evanier. Then by Chaykin in the late 80s. Then, Zero Hour happened, and Zinda was brought back. This brought back the Evanier group even though Zinda never appeared in that revamp... It's the Evanier group, with Chaykin's Blackhawk, and the Silver Age Zinda. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 16:11, August 10, 2014 (UTC) ::Yeah, the Post-Zero Hour Blackhawks...didn't they also still use Blackhawk Express and Weng Chan (formerly Chop-Chop) from the Chaykin/Pasko Post-Crisis era in some places? JLA: Year One did have the goofy superhero identities from the Silver Age. That doesn't seem like something Chaykin's guys (or Evanier's or Eisner's or....) would ever do. And that Batman Confidential arc used Zinda, Janos Prohaska Blackhawk and Ted Gaynor from the Evanier era. It seems that after Zinda was brought back during Zero Hour nobody knew where things stood with Blackhawk continuity and anything was fair game. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 16:40, August 10, 2014 (UTC) :::That Confidential arc also used the Evanier Chop Chop. But they did managed to mix up Killer Sharks... saying Haifisch created Queen KS. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 16:49, August 10, 2014 (UTC) ::::Hmm. Also, Zinda was shown to be active with the team during WWII in, for example, The Brave and the Bold (Volume 3) #9. Maybe that comes from her Birds of Prey appearances. I never followed that book closely. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 17:18, August 10, 2014 (UTC) :::::BoP 75 explains she was active during WWII. The second BoP series also established that she was plucked from her time in or after 1950. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 17:29, August 10, 2014 (UTC) ::::::So, I suppose Chaykin's Natalie Reed would be the second Lady Blackhawk if she existed after ZH. I don't know how well all this stuff would have meshed together, but it might have been cool to see a new Blackhawk series set in WWII before Flashpoint came along and changed everything. And to get things back on topic, I'll add the QPDs (Quality Publication Dates) for the above characters later. That way we can see who stopped being published before the real-world end of WWII. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 17:52, August 10, 2014 (UTC) Blackhawk, Invisible Hood, and Magno: Blackhawk's QU version page doesn't exist; did it get created and then annihilated, or just not created? Ditto for Invisible Hood, who has an Earth-X character page, and who I think used to have a QU character page, but now lacks one. Magno superficially looks okay just from me adding Magno to the list, but didn't he also used to have a QU-version character page? Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 07:13, October 19, 2014 (UTC) Kid Eternity What's the rationale for doing away with the Quality Universe K.E.? Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 02:09, September 12, 2015 (UTC) ::Honestly, I just think his Earth-S history fits with his Quality history without contradiction. Therefore, no need for a separate page. The original purpose of the QU pages was to deal with the Earth-X discrepancies. I'm open to further discussion if you disagree, though. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 02:17, September 12, 2015 (UTC) :::It seems to set a bad precedent, moving a character from his native universe to a "competing" universe. Then again, the actual damage was done back in the 1970s (?) when E.N.Bridwell (??) or Julius Schwarz (???) first retconned K.E. into Freddy Freeman's extended family. Did either Kit or Freddy cross-over into each other's published stories, during that era? Or since then? If so, that would be canonical evidence of K.E.'s Earth-S status, and I should shut up about it. But if not, then my misgivings are centered on the wrongitude of sticking one publisher's character into another publisher's universe. Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 02:35, September 12, 2015 (UTC) ::::The Kid was a guest star in several Marvel Family stories in World's Finest Comics in the early '80s. That's when the retconned origin was established. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 02:53, September 12, 2015 (UTC) :::::1/ Okay that establishes that there is an Earth-S K.E., but not that there (should or must or can) be only one version of K.E.'s family history, amid all these parallel universes. The K.E./F.F. relationship/nonrelationship thing doesn't contradict the back-stories of either character, but it's only supported by the backstory of one of them. :::::2/ As you say, the original purpose of the QU pages was to deal with a problem that was created when the QU characters' histories were retconned, by DC editors, into histories which contradicted their originally-published adventures. That was a problem, and needed a fix. But the fix, once applied, should be consistently applied. :::::3/ Accepting the premise that QU has been created, and that dozens of QU characters therefore already exist in parallel versions of themselves, why would Kid Eternity be the only character that does not? What is the rationale for singling K.E. out for this treatment? Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 11:19, September 12, 2015 (UTC) ::::::You make good points. Also, I will admit that the removal on my part was perhaps rash. I'm not dead-set against the creation of a QU page for Kid Eternity. Maybe we should run it past Tupka and the other admins. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 11:40, September 12, 2015 (UTC) :::::::Okay, but while I was waiting around for that to happen, I scrolled way way way up on this talk page, to June of 2014, and found this other source, who seemed credible, so I thought I should quote him: "Also, Kid Eternity and his cast belong on this page despite the Earth-S retcon." - DrJohnnyDiablo This was persuasive a year ago, what's changed since then? Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 01:16, September 13, 2015 (UTC) missing list of "Residents" It was here just yesterday. Where did it go? Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 13:11, September 12, 2015 (UTC) ::Fixed. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 13:33, September 12, 2015 (UTC) Universe Name How did we come up with the name Quality Universe? Because the first time I saw the concept (that Earth-X can't be the home of most of the Quality Comics stories, so there must be a separate universe for that) mentioned was in The Official Crisis On Infinite Earths Index(1986), and I'm pretty sure they called it Earth-Quality (or maybe Earth-Q). Does the Quality Universe name come from Absolute Crisis on Infinite Earths? (NOTE: I am not suggesting we change it, I am just curious) Shadzane �� (talk) 17:24, February 17, 2016 (UTC) :No, it's a name we came up with. I don't think Earth-Q showed up in AbsCOIE, which is largely based on the Index. We want to get away from Earth-Whatevs names because it gives an air of officiality. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 17:34, February 17, 2016 (UTC) ::The name Earth-Quality seems to be making a comeback, at least as an alias, on the main QU page. Which I'm in favor of, but not yet brave enough to start doing. Right now I'm trying to remember how the relatively unwieldy Quality Universe became the name in the first place. ::If its based on "We want to get away from Earth-Whatevs names because it gives an air of officiality.", well, that horse seems to have left the barn long ago. Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 12:28, December 10, 2016 (UTC)